21) CUTTING HOT MEAT WITH A BAT YOMO MILK KNIFE
If one inadvertently
cut a hot piece of meat (above 45 degrees centigrade), with a BAT YOMO[1]
milk knife, the heat of the meat will cause the invisible milk TAAM (taste)
present within the knife, to be expelled and be absorbed into the meat.
(Because the
knife was last used within 24 hours for cutting milchiks, the milk taste is
considered to be active, and when it makes contact with the hot meat, it gets
absorbed within the meat.)
To remedy the
situation, we require 60 times more meat against the section of knife that made
contact with the meat.[2]
If the person
is uncertain as to how much of the knife contacted the meat, the assumption is
made that ALL of the knife did indeed touch the meat, EXCLUDING the handle. We
would thus require 60 times more meat against the cutting section of the knife.
However,
assuming we do have 60 times more meat against the TAAM (taste) of milk in the
knife, the meat would not yet be permitted for eating until we remove KDEI
KLIPAH (the thinnest slither we can cut from the meat without it flaking). KDEI
KLIPAH would have to be removed from both sides of the cut.
The reason for removing KDEI
KLIPAH is because we assume that a common knife has SHAMNUNIT (a fatty residue on
the surface), and this fat may be absorbed up to a maximum depth of a
‘slither’. This assumption is based on the idea that people are not as
concerned about cleaning knives as they are about cleaning forks. Forks enter
into the mouth and therefore people are more concerned about their cleanliness
– whereas many are less fussy about knives which are sometimes shared.
{There is a
stricter view that maintains that it is insufficient to remove KDEI KLIPAH (a
slither), and requires KDEI NETILAH (approximately 2cm or ¾ inch) to be removed
from both sides of the cut. The reason for this stricter opinion is the
assumption that perhaps not all the TAAM (taste) of the milk will spread
throughout the entire piece of meat. It may only spread locally (up to
2cm on either side of the cut), and in that relatively small area there
certainly would not be 60 time more meat against the milk. Thus the entire 2cm area
are would have to be removed.
According to the
first view, the assumption is that the TAAM (taste) does spread throughout
the entire piece of meat, and is nullified by SHISHIM (60), and all we are concerned
about is the absorption of fat up to KDEI KLIPAH (a slither).}
[Daf 33, Perek
4, Seif 1,2]
[2]
There is a view that, in such a case, we would not rely on simply asking the
person if he remembers how much of the knife made contact with the meat. This
is because of the principle which states that ‘unless the object in question is
actually in front of the person at the time, he is not precisely aware of all
the details surrounding it.’
There is a lot of clarity required regarding the above and a lot of complexities that are released...
ReplyDeleteHere are a few:
The bat yuma milk knife - simply, this was a knife used in cooking with milk. If we are applying cutting and thus the concept of "heat pressure" then this introduces complexities that should be left aside for now. So simply, in the body and footnote, we should not define it as having been used for cutting; but rather that the bat yuma knife is one having been used in a pot containing hot milkich liquid in the past 24 hours.
Next, as defined above, the shamnunit can be absorbed only to a klipah. We are not concerned that shamnunit presents a taam problem at all.
So the kdei netilah argument is based on the concern that the taam does not spread fully into the meat - how "dry" is the meat, the knife is cold, are factors - and thus the taam only goes as far as a netilah, rendering that area osur.
Accordingly the last clause 'we are concerned about is the absorption of fat up to KDEI KLIPAH' should be amended to 'we are concerned about is the absorption of taam up to KDEI KLIPAH'
As indicated below, I had misread the last paragraph so the above comment should have rather stated:
DeleteA simple bat yuma milk knife definition should refer to a knife used in cooking with milk in the past 24hrs.
There is also a concept of "heat pressure" from cutting, which introduces complexities that should be left aside for now.
It is noteworthy and indicative that the shamnunit can be absorbed only to a klipah and we are not concerned that shamnunit presents a taam problem at all.
The second view regarding removing kdei netilah is based on the concern that the taam does not spread fully into the meat but remains localised. In this case, the taam will not be nullified for a lack of shishim and thus create an issur/neveilah.
This concern is influenced by the factor of the dryness of the meat which is not understood in current times and thus we take the most conservative view.
I would argue that, in your own words; 'shamnunit can be absorbed only to a klipah. We are not concerned that shamnunit presents a taam problem at all', is correct.
ReplyDeleteTAAM only becomes an issue in the second view (where we are uncertain just how far it spreads). That's why we say up to KDEI NETILAH.
Foe these reasons I would leave the text as is because we are concerned about the absorption of FAT up to KDEI KLIPAH, in the first view.
correct. sorry, I had read the last paragraph incorrectly, thinking it referred to kdei netilah and the previous paragraph - my mind was 1.8cm misplaced.
Delete