20) INSERTING A MILK SPOON INTO A MEAT POT (Continued)

If one inserted a SHE’EINO BAT YOMO[1] milk spoon into a meat pot that had meat cooking in it, the meat will remain unaffected by the spoon, because the TAAM (taste) of milk in the spoon is PAGUM (ineffective). This would be true even if there is not 60 times more meat than the volume of the spoon.

However the milk spoon itself would require HAGALAH (kashering by boiling), because it now absorbed a TAAM (taste) of meat[2]. 

[Daf 32, Seif 7,8]

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[1] A spoon that was last used more than 24 hours ago.

[2] Until the milk spoon is kashered, we would not be allowed to use it further for either;

1)       milk, because is just absorbed a fresh taste of meat, or

2)       meat, because under Rabbinical law, we may not LECHATCHILAH (at the outset) use a milk implement (even if it was last used more than 24 hours ago) for meat.

19) INSERTING A MILK SPOON INTO A MEAT POT

If one inadvertently inserted a BAT YUMA [1] milk spoon into a meat pot that had meat cooking in it, the cooking process causes the active TAAM (taste) of the milk that was already absorbed within the spoon, to get expelled from the spoon and enter into the meat.

Since we are not sure exactly how much milk TAAM (taste) from the spoon gets expelled and absorbed into the meat – we err on the side of caution and assume that there is milk in the volume of the metal of the spoon in the section that entered into the pot.[2]

                              

So now we need to measure the volume of meat and ascertain if there is 60 times more meat against the volume of (a section of) the milk spoon.

If there is, the meat is permitted, but the milk spoon would need to be KASHERED by boiling, because it now absorbed a TAAM (taste) of meat.

If there is not, the entire quantity of meat is prohibited – and the meat pot would also become prohibited since it has now absorbed a TAAM (taste) of BASAR BECHALAV (meat and milk), and would also need to be KASHERED by boiling.

[Daf 31,32. Seif 5,6.]

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[1] A utensil used within the last 24 hours.

[2] There is, however, some debate over exactly which section of the spoon we reference for the calculation of SHISHIM (60). Imagine a cross-section of a spoon inserted into a pot containing, say, meat soup. There would clearly be three distinct areas: 

1) The section above the brim of the pot which is exposed entirely to the air. 

2) The section below the brim but above the surface of the soup.

3) The section in, and below the surface of, the soup.

According to all views, the first section exposed entirely to the air, need not be brought into the calculation, because it is unaffected by the heat of the cooking process.

According to most views, the second and third sections are to be measured, because they are the sections affected by the cooking process (either by the liquid or the steam).

According to one view (that of the Chochmas Adam), it is only the third section which is in the actual soup, that need to be measured. This last view is obviously the most lenient view since with a smaller volume of spoon we are more likely to find 60 times more meat.

18) A POT CANNOT CONTAIN MORE THAN 60 TIMES THE VOLUME OF ITS WALLS

Based on the principle of BOTEL BE’SHISHIM (nullification in 60)[1], if one inadvertently cooked meat in a (clean) milk pot that was last used within 24 hours, the first fact we need to ascertain is: How much meat was cooked?

In theory, if the meat happened to be 60 times more than the volume of the walls of the milk pot, the meat is kosher. This is because even though the taste of milk is considered active (since the pot was used for milk within the last 24 hours), there is nevertheless 60 times more meat to cancel out the effect of the milk.

If there is not 60 times more meat, then it would be affected by the active milk taste emanating from the walls of the pot, and the meat would not be permitted. 

The interesting thing is that we do NOT know exactly how much milk TAAM (taste) from the walls of the pot gets expelled and absorbed into the meat – so we err on the side of caution and assume that there is milk in the entire volume of the metal of the pot. We know this is not the technically the case but this is our ASSUMPTION for purposes of the calculation of SHISHIM (60).

However this presents us with an interesting conundrum: Mathematically it is IMPROBABLE for an average pot of average wall thickness, to contain 60 times more volume than the volume of its walls.  For this reason, as a general principle, if meat is cooked in a BAT YUMA[2] milk pot, the meat would not be permitted.

[Daf 30,31. Perek 3. Seif 3,4.]

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[1] See post 17.

[2] A pot last used within 24 hours.

17) QUANTIFYING THE EXTENT OF TA’AM (TASTE)

It is important to establish just how far a TA’AM (taste) of milk, is able to penetrate and affect the meat with which it was cooked.[1]

There is a clear ceiling and limit as to how far a TA’AM (taste) can penetrate.

The reach of TA’AM (taste), for the average food or beverage, is only up to 60 times its own volume.

This means that if a drop of milk were to fall into a pot of meat that was cooking on a stove, one would need to establish the volume of the drop, and then determine whether or not there was 60 times more meat against the drop of milk. If there was 60 times more meat to the milk, the milk is said to be BOTEL (nullified), and the entire pot of meat would be absolutely permitted. This is known as BOTEL BE’SHISHIM (nullification in 60). If, however, there was not more than 60 times the volume of meat against the volume of milk, the TA’AM (Taste) of milk would still be considered effective, and the food and pot would be considered a NEVEILAH (forbidden entity of meat and milk).

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[1] And visa versa.

16) COOKING MEAT IN A MILK POT [PART 4]

If one did make a mistake and cooked meat in a milk pot, which was last used more than 24 hours ago (for milk), the meat would be permitted (but the pot would have to be kashered).

Now if:

1)     One again cooks meat, unintentionally, in the same pot – the meat would still be permitted[1]

2)     One again cooks milk, unintentionally, in the same pot and within 24 hours – the milk would be prohibited MIDEORAITA (under Torah law)[2].

3)     One again cooks milk, unintentionally, in the same pot but more than 24 hours later – the milk would be permitted.[3]

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[1] Because the original taste of milk would have dissipated after the first 24 hours.

[2] Because the taste of meat would still be active from the earlier cooking.

[3] Because the taste of meat would have dissipated.

15 COOKING MEAT IN A MILK POT [PART 3]

If one did make a mistake and cooked meat in a milk pot that was last used more than 24 hours ago, the food would be permitted, but the pot would have to be kashered by boiling.

The reason for this discrepancy is as follows:

1)      The meat is permitted because it only cooked in a dissipated milk taste.

2)      The pot has to be kashered because:                                                                                                        A) It is a milk pot that now has absorbed meat. So it would have to be kashered before it can be used again for milk.

B) It would also have to be kashered before it is used again even for meat, because one may not, in the first instance, use a milk pot to cook meat[1].

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[1] Theoretically, however, it would be permitted to cook something PAREV in the pot, although the custom is to refrain from doing so.

14) COOKING MEAT IN A MILK POT [PART 2]

Although it is theoretically permitted to cook meat in a milk pot that was last used more than 24 hours ago[1], in practice the sages ruled against this. The reason is simple: If people get used to regularly cooking meat in a milk pot (last used more than 24 hours ago) - it could very easily lead to confusion with them mistakenly using a pot last used within 24 hours. This would clearly be forbidden as the TA’AM (taste) of the milk within the walls of the pot, is still active - and it is tantamount to cooking meat with actual milk. This scenario would be very likely to occur, since in the day to day running of a kitchen, one does not usually keep track of times when last the various pots were used.

However, if one did make a mistake and cooked meat in a milk pot that was last used more than 24 hours ago, the food would be permitted (but the pot would have to be kashered by boiling[2]).

A pot last used within 24 hours is known as a BEN YOMO.

A pot last used more than 24 hours ago is known as a SHE’AINO BEN YOMO.

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[1] Because the milk taste would have dissipated.

[2] See p 15.

13) COOKING MEAT IN A MILK POT [PART 1]

If one cooked meat in a perfectly clean milk pot, that was last used for milk within the previous 24 hours, the meat is forbidden. This is because the TA’AM (taste) of milk within the walls of the pot is still active. This is known as NOTEN TA’AM LISHEVACH (transferral of an active taste).

If one cooked meat in a perfectly clean milk pot, that was last used for milk more than 24 hour before, the meat is permitted[1]. This is because the TA’AM (taste) of milk within the walls of the pot is no longer active. This is known as NOTEN TA’AM LIFEGAM (transferral of an inactive taste).[2]

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[1] The meat is only permitted BEDIEVED (de facto), i.e. in a case where one made a mistake. One would not, however, be allowed to use a milk pot LECHATCHILA (in the first instance) for cooking meat. See p 14.

[2] In both cases the same would apply if one cooked milk in a meat pot under the same circumstances. 

12) A TA’AM (TASTE) IS ONLY ACTIVE FOR 24 HOURS

The only time a TA’AM (taste) of a substance is just as severely forbidden as the IKAR (primary substance), is when the taste is considered TARI (‘fresh’), i.e. within 24 hours. When the TA’AM is more than 24 hours old, it dissipates and loses its effect.

This, however, would only apply to a TA’AM in a vessel, but not to a TA’AM in an actual food substance. Thus a TA’AM (taste), say of milk absorbed in a piece of meat, would remain prohibited even after a 24 hour period.

REMEMBER: TA’AM (taste) in a vessel remains active only for 24 hours, while that in a food substance always remains active.